Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Speaker A: Welcome to Emotional Sobriety, the next step in Recovery, with Dr. Alan Berger and Tom Rutledge.
Did you get a chance to see the Grateful Dead sphere in Vegas?
[00:00:18] Speaker B: I did not. I had. This is funny. I had tickets to go, and I was in rehab during. During that show, so my son and my wife and I were all going to go. That's when I went to Divided sky. And thankfully my parents took him, so he got to still go and experience it. And my parents seeing the Dead is hilarious.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: So are they very. Are they very starch collar kind of people?
[00:00:46] Speaker B: They're game, but they're also, you know, kind of old school Midwestern. So it's a little bit of both.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: For whatever reason, I got an image of kitty from that 70s show. Do you ever see that 70s show?
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Kitty in Red, kind of. Actually, that's pretty close because that was in Wisconsin. That's where I'm from.
[00:01:03] Speaker C: Our topic last week was really that, you know, you can't transform something that you refuse to take a look at. That emotional sobriety is learning to live and love differently. And a big part of that is getting honest with ourselves about what's going on and what the matter is. Right. What is really causing us trouble. And, you know, when I read your book, one of the things I loved about it was what I would call the process you went through when you started to wake up. And that's what I'd like to focus on today in talking to you about your book is the experience you had. And if you've got some sections in there that you'd be willing to read to us and that just show us what you experienced as you were entering treatment at Divided Sky.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds great. And I love that you used the word process, because it really is a process and not an event. You don't just wake up and you're emotionally sober. Like, there were a lot of steps to go through and a lot of conditions that had to be just right in order for me to even start on that journey and to have the discoveries I did and to find my way through it and eventually find my way back home.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: We do find a way back to ourselves, don't we?
[00:02:20] Speaker B: We do. And maybe not home in, like, the physical sense, but the home of, like, the. The true self you lost so long ago. I think that's the real home that we're trying to get back to. I think it's really hard to wake up without something that kind of shocks you and gives you that awareness. You have to Know that you are asleep. I think it's the first step to stop sleepwalking. And so I'm going to read a little bit about what that breakdown was like and the journey for me to go into treatment.
I was 30,000ft in the air, flying across the country to check myself into a rehab facility in rural Vermont. It was called the Divided Sky Foundation, a small, fledgling recovery center started by someone whose music had shaped my life. One of my heroes. Not in the abstract sense, not like posters on a teenage bedroom wall. His music was a soundtrack to my creative identity, to who I thought I was.
He had gone through it, addiction recovery, and came out the other side. That mattered to me more than I was willing to admit. It made the whole idea of rehab seem less foreign, less impossible. If it had worked for him, maybe it could work for me. No ordinary rehab would do. I needed a special one for special people like myself. Another illusion that would be shattered in short order. But it helped to lure me in nonetheless.
That fantasy of being uniquely broken and therefore needing a uniquely tailored solution wasn't new. I'd been living inside it for a long time. I didn't know it yet, but that belief was a part of a much deeper pattern, a way of protecting myself from the fear that I didn't belong in this world, not anywhere. I wasn't going for a reset. I was going because I had run out of options. My marriage was falling apart. My. My wife was done. I had lost all credibility with her. And I knew, even if I hadn't admitted it out loud, that me and my marriage were circling the drain I was using, whether I could get away with it or not. Lying to my wife, lying to myself, telling her I had it under control, telling myself I had everything under control, until I didn't.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: You had to admit and accept where you were before you can move past that.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: I did. And I would. You know, the. The name of the book is Sincerely Delusional. I have to admit, though, on that plane ride out, I was still incredibly sincere in my delusion. And like I was saying, I felt like I'm going to go to this place because it's special and I. I'm different. And like. And. And so maybe I can find help there, you know, if I actually need help. I think all of those tapes were running in my head, still trying to, you know, I had made the choice, and thank God for that. But I was still really holding on to the delusion, like there was no separation from it yet. Just one good decision to finally go and get help.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like you were beginning the process. As you said, you weren't awake yet, but the seed was being planted through the crisis you were in.
And, you know, I call that crisis, Dan, the way I've described that to people, it's a crisis of our limitation.
Right. Is that the way we've been living our life is. Of course it's going to be limited. No one is everything that they need to be. Right. You know, we grow in the best way we can, but we never. We're never really given all the experiences we need to be whole.
So we do the best we can. So there's going to be a limitation. Well, eventually that limitation is going to show up. It's going to manifest itself in what you were just describing. You know, here I'm living my life, but there's. There. It's just not complete. It's not holding together. Well, it's.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, when we start to substitute alcohol and drugs for that emotional growth, it shows up in really dramatic and horrible ways over time.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: You got it.
Yeah. In the beginning, it may not look like much of a problem, but eventually it really becomes.
And for some people, it gets. Goes pretty fast, depending on the drugs you use.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: You know, it does. And, you know, I. I was just talking to someone about this last week. It is like a gradual slope and then you drop off a cliff. And so it sort of just depends where the cliff is for you. I was off the cliff. By the time I was on that plane, I was exhausted, defeated, done, and really just, you know, I don't know if I realized it at the time, but like, so grateful to be able to stop because it's exhausting, you know, spending so much time not being yourself is really exhausting.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Well, right.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: And that's what in the room, they would call that hit and bot. Right. That's the way that would get referred.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Right. I mean. Well, I. Some of your story of rehab resonated with me, Dan, because I also had an almost euphoric state of when I was locked up and, you know, hitting that bottom, there was almost like a euphoria and release to it because it was just such a nightmare. Sure. That I was in for a while.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: It's a relief.
I mean, you've been plucked out of life and put to the side and now you're in a protected space and getting help.
It's such a relief.
And though I have to admit, I was very confident in my decision and right up until I walked through the door and then as soon as I walked through that door and they took all my stuff away and like, and I was put into, you know, Divided sky sweatpants and a sweatsuit and sitting in a corner waiting for and realizing I was there for 30 days and I, I wasn't leaving and the doors lock and I was going to have a, A, you know, a bedtime and I was like, oh, wow, I'm, I'm in an institution and, and I'm giving, I'm trading some of my freedom for the possibility for the hope of help or for getting better or for, for a different path. And so that was, I was very confident in my, in my, you know, false kind of self confidence right up until that point. And then it took, you know, the next 30 days and even the next year to kind of build true confidence back. And that's what the book is about is that process over that next year.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: We're always just waking up from whatever the next dream is. Right. What was the next thing you had to kind of overcome in waking up?
[00:08:53] Speaker B: It's. The reason I started writing the book was when I got to a year and I went back to Divided sky for a fundraiser to visit and I thought I'd go back and I'd feel like heroic and I'm coming back as an elder and I got back and I realized there was more emotion waiting for me there than I, than I could handle or that I could express.
And I had to just feel it. I had like there. So I was learning the same lesson I learned the first time. Like, oh, I have to feel and I can't run from this. And in that moment I was like, oh, you, you still don't know shit. So like, which, which was good. It was, I was getting right sized and I, you know, every time and it keeps happening.
I don't want to give some like, illusion of like, hey, I'm awake and everything. I'm always awake and 100% of the time I'm aware and emotionally sober. No, we all, you know, we go back to life and work and family and kids and difficulties and challenges and I think it ebbs and flows.
That awareness comes and goes and it's a gift every time you get a reminder of and you get right sized and you're like, oh, wait, I'm still doing this. Like this, this isn't, there's no end to this race. Like this is, this is forever. And it's a process and you know, it's, it's, it's probably one of the best Parts of being alive is getting to. To go through that process and to feel and experience and to do it with at least some level of awareness. So for me, it was that year mark going back, and that's why I started writing the book. I didn't mean to write a book. You know, just to be totally honest, didn't. That was not my intention. Like, I'm going to write a story and put it out to the world. I didn't think I had any right to do that.
What I was trying to do was make sense of the past year for myself. And I didn't. I also didn't want to lose it. Like, it was fresh enough and I still had notes from when I was, you know, in treatment. And so I wanted to, like, memorialize it so I could go back and experience it so it didn't just fade from memory. And then, you know, over time, I slipped back to where I was.
So that's. That's why I wrote it. And then once I started sharing it with people, they were like, you should. You should share this with other people. And I was a little. I was a little surprised by that. And, you know, all the way to when someone told me, hey, we should publish this.
That was Alan.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Well, it's good advice. And, you know, I follow different. I write and I follow different writing accounts on Instagram. And actually, like, I saw a quote the other day. I. I don't know who to attribute to.
That speaks to what you're talking about, which is like, right when you're hot, when you're activated, when you're agitated, that's when you've got to write it. You know what I mean? Don't wait till later when, you know, the wisdom comes in or you're, you know, you're cooled down or that, you know, you've got everything just ordered completely correctly. You know, it seems like what this book poured out of was like a real.
When you were really, like, cracked open and you were ready to express all these things.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. And it took that. It took that event and it took that realization to kind of give me the push. Without that, I don't. I don't think this book would exist.
But, yeah, and then once I started, it was done in a month. It was just. It just like you said, it. It poured out. Now the process after of editing and, you know, that's a much longer.
That takes a lot longer. And that was a lot of care and feeding and making that happen. But really, that first push was a month. And once I started I kind of couldn't stop.
[00:12:31] Speaker C: So what happened in treatment where you started to wake up? What was the first wake up call that you answered?
[00:12:36] Speaker B: Dan, can I read another passage about that, please?
[00:12:40] Speaker C: That's be great.
Welcome. I love your writing.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: So for me, it was the introduction of, like, a new set of language, and that was emotional sobriety.
So thank. Thankfully I got thrown into an emotional sobriety class, maybe my first day or second day. They really don't, like, they don't. You don't get a soft landing and like, put in a steam room and like, you get your binder and you get sent to the classroom and you get put to work right away, which was awesome.
Um, so it was that introduction to. To the concepts of emotional sobriety and to especially the term sincere delusion that unlocked a lot of things for me. So that's what this passage is about. Terms like true self and false self were new to me. They honestly sounded like the kind of inner child bullshit I had heard ridiculed my whole life. But it turns out the people doing the ridiculing were probably just as emotionally stunted as I was. I learned that from studying emotional sobriety as taught by Dr. Alan Berger. His book was the first thing that actually made sense to me. I couldn't believe how closely it described what I was going through, what I had become.
Thankfully, I was broken down enough by then. I couldn't resist it, even if I wanted to. It felt like I had finally found the light in the dark I'd been searching for all these years.
It gave me something I hadn't realized I was.
Language. Not just words. Words are easy. I mean, actual understanding. A way to decode the mess I'd been living inside. Because without that, I wasn't just misunderstood. I was untranslatable, even to myself. So when I said I was fine, when I swore I could handle it, that wasn't manipulation. That wasn't strategy. That was my truth. And yeah, it was bullshit, but it was bullshit I believed. That's the trap. I wasn't gaslighting. I wasn't just lying. I truly believed the lies. I had constructed what Dr. Berger referred to as sincere delusion.
[00:14:48] Speaker C: Boy, that. That's so powerful, man. Wow.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: You know, and what.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: What did that feel like, if you were going through that, Dan, what was that like for you?
[00:14:58] Speaker B: It was such a relief. It was like alarm bells went off and, you know, the angels were singing. It was like the choir opened up. Well, because I was stuck in this mode of really believing that I was Being truthful, which was totally delusional. I wasn't. But I had it rationalized in a way where to me it all made sense and I was being persecuted and, And I was misunderstood. And this sort of, what it did is it gave me permission to step outside of myself and look at myself without judgment and without. And with some compassion. And to see like, which I think is. Is. Is like, that's the true step in waking up is like, you, you gotta stop hating yourself if you can. And like, you also need to try if you. And I think it's being in treatment made this possible. And having that safe space, having that opportunity to observe myself rather than defend myself is what kind of like, blew everything open. So now I moved from, you know, being in a, in a defensive posture to like, studying my behavior and trying to find, you know, not the, the who's right and who's wrong and all the moral math that we do, but more like, what is the origin of this and how do I address that? And until I did that, there could be no accountability, real accountability, no gratitude. All the things that we strive for, like, were not possible for me until I was able to. To kind of look at the whole and try to figure out how I got to where I was.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: I love the nuance, though, that you. That you're pointing to there about, like, compassion to yourself is key. And that's not the same as letting yourself off the hook or, you know, dodging responsibility. You know what I mean? You can be compassionate to yourself, you know, while still and hold your own hand as you walk through what you need to walk through.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, in a sense, I've never been harder on myself than once I was able to be compassionate with myself because I could actually be honest.
And, and, but prior to that, honest, I, you know, I think I say this in the book. I've said this a lot. To me, honesty meant death. It meant just, you know, being found out. It meant, you know, the, the ultimate danger that I had been running from the whole time was, was true honesty. And so this made it possible. Like, I was in a, you know, some of it is like, you're in a safe space. You're with people that know what they're doing.
You're with strangers to a certain extent, you don't stay that way. You, you grow extremely close in treatment. You know, I'm going to be talking to a group of the guys I was in with. You know, this was two and a half years ago tonight. So, you know, you, you form These, these real intense bonds with people. But still, you're in a safe space. You, you can, you can take that time, and hopefully you can look at yourself honestly. And I, and, and I know, like, not everybody gets there. Like, I saw some, some people do it, some people don't. Not everybody's ready. I was just, I was ready. I, I, I, like I say in the book, I had run out of road. There was nothing, I had no other option other than total destruction.
[00:18:30] Speaker C: Run out of Runway. Hey, right.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it was over. And talk about dropping off a cliff when that Runway is gone, like, then, then you fall really fast.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: I, I love the description you made of it. Right. It's just a slow progression, and then all of a sudden, you hit the cliff.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Before I met him, I used to sit in his office, the waiting room for. To his office. And there was another therapist that I was seeing in his office in Hermosa Beach. And Alan would be welcoming in other clients, but he would see me sitting there, and I was usually, I was always just like, you know, hungover or like, you know, withdrawing from something or in some kind of, like, ridiculous emotional crisis. And he just had this, this smile on his face, just like, hey, buddy, how's it going? You know, good to see you, you know, and, and just caring about his practice. But, like, you know, by the time I started working with him, I, I was mostly ready. You know, it was just a, it was, it was details, you know what I mean? He had to work out with me initially, and I had to go into treatment and get started. But basically.
[00:19:36] Speaker C: Do you remember your reaction to my suggestion about going into treatment? Your first reaction?
[00:19:41] Speaker A: Well, it's, it's funny. It's. I think it's a common thing where I'm just like, oh, let me check my calendar. I'm quite busy, you know, I'm gonna have to. I don't know. I don't know if I, my schedule can permit.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: Sure. I need something like that. Do you think I really need that?
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: It's like the, I don't know what I can fit it in. Yeah, right.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: My, my addict self is like, disappearing between the water, and he's just, like, reaching for a life preserver. Like, please, you know, like, just like, don't send me the treatment.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: You're going to negotiate recovery.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: Yeah, but, but basically that, yeah, the just being ready, I guess, is that, that's just what I'm speaking to is
[00:20:15] Speaker C: like, that you went through a very similar process that he did when you were sitting in the groups. And you started to hear people share and you started to get really honest with yourself about your. On what was really going on in your life.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: One of my favorite parts about that is the other people can be exactly opposite from you. Different.
Different addiction, different walk of life, different profession.
You can have almost nothing in common. And then you realize, like, wow, we're exactly the same.
That was a big realization for me because when I was in treatment, we would go out to meetings out around Ludlow, Vermont, and meet the locals at those meetings. And we were the less than 30 day crew coming in in our.
With nothing in our pockets and like, you know, blank stares on our faces. And everyone was so gracious and welcoming. It was just such a powerful experience.
But you, you said something that reminded me of when I went to treatment.
I tried to wiggle out of it at the last minute too, like checking my calendar, but. But my son was graduating high school, and so for me to leave when I needed to leave meant missing his graduation.
And so I. Which I really didn't want to do. And I started to then like, okay, well, let me, let me rationalize this. I started to bargain a little bit, like, maybe I'll go in two weeks.
And at that time, I got the best advice I've ever gotten from a very good friend of mine. He said, hey, you're dangerous. You go now.
And I was like, holy shit. I, you know, I, I know I'm. I'm at the point where I can see I have a problem, and I also can see that I can't solve it by myself. But hearing like, you're dangerous, you're. And not just to yourself, but to the people around you, you are unsafe. Like, that was really powerful. And powerful enough that, you know, I was willing to miss that big life event in order to try to get a better life out of it for me and for my family.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: I went through something similar. My uncle died when I was in.
He'd been dying of cancer, and then he died when I was in rehab. And so we were contemplating do I leave early to attend the funeral. And it was a similar kind of conversation that took place. And I ended up calling my aunt from, you know, from the facility.
But I, Yeah, I mean, I just have to believe that that's the better choice. You gotta choose recovery because everything rests upon it.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: I think. I mean, I think it is, you know, you're, you're. You're choosing life in that moment over an event. So it's hard, but I think we both did the right thing.
[00:23:11] Speaker C: I know you both did the right thing.
I have no doubt about it. I see both of you, and your lives today are so different, and they're. They're thriving and they're full. And, you know, when we were in New York at.
We went to see Trey performing in the Beacon. Was it. I think it was, yeah. The Beacon fundraiser for. You know, I just saw your family with you, Dan, and, I mean, my God, man, it's. It's. You guys are a real family. I mean, you're really connected, and they were. You know, everybody has smiles on your face, and it was wonderful just to be with you guys, and I've seen that with you. You've been living your life, man. You really have been alive.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I.
I had an opportunity to Talk for, like, 45 minutes, and it was one of the rare times I've been asked to do that. Like a. A week ago at, like, a sober living. And I got to just kind of go through all of it, and I was proud of myself. Like, I. I was able to just shoot from the hip. And, you know, I. I think I have an anxiety with public speaking where I just feel like I've got to triangulate too much. I've got to make it sound good, you know, but as you know, you always end up doing better when you're not trying to sound good, when you're just kind of, like, letting it roll, especially when it comes from a place like.
It's just. It's hilarious. I think I was telling myself that on the way to the talk, was like, I can't. If there's one thing in life that I'm versed in, it's this stuff.
Like, you know, I've lived it. This is my life. You know, this is like, I've got no reason to be anxious about it.
[00:24:43] Speaker C: But.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, and I think just. And getting to the end of that 45 minutes, I kind of. It kind of occurred to me. I really felt all that's happened in these last eight years of recovery. And it's like, I've been at this a while. You know, for me, it's my most biggest and most important project.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: It's funny how similar we are. It just gets more and more similar as this goes on. Like, I deal with all the same things. Like, any. I've just started doing podcasts and speaking because of the book, and I get so, you know, the old nerves and anxiety come back, and I'm like, you know, shouldn't I. Shouldn't I be over this? By now. And it's like, no, why? Why do you get out of life? And, like, you want new experiences. You want to go do big things. Like, yeah, you might feel a little nervous. You might actually have to work through that.
So the. My. I was just. I spoke at a. At an event in New York last weekend. My wife and I flew out for that.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, that was that donor event. Right. For.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: It was. It was the donor event for Divided Sky. And so I was going to speak for 10 minutes and do a little reading, and I was terrified.
And, you know, with. Which I didn't need to be.
But anyways, it was a big deal, you know, flying across the country and going to, you know, be there with Melanie from Divided sky and Seth and, you know, in a room full of people in a swanky restaurant in New York.
[00:26:11] Speaker C: Trey was there, too.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I didn't know if I was supposed to mention that, but, yep, Trey was there, too. And so in front of, like, my longtime, you know, musical hero. And so the plane ride out, it was just nothing but nerves and anxiety, and I was trying to bargain my way out of that or tell myself, like, no, you got this. Or do affirmations. And finally I was like, well, maybe I should just stop thinking and just sit with this feeling and just sit in it. And I did, and it was uncomfortable. And then it went away.
And then I got to the event, and the event was fantastic, and the read and the speech went really well. And, you know, yes, I had nothing to worry about. And, yes, I also had to feel those nerves. Like, you can't control what feelings come up, but we can control what, you know, what thoughts we decide to apply to them or how we want to categorize those or what meaning we want. Like, I didn't have to give any meaning to it in the end. I just had to sit there, and it was great once getting through that. And like I was saying, that's another reminder of what it is to be awake. So that was a really cool experience.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Because all we have to do is testify to our own experience, and there's really no way to fuck that up if we're just being authentic.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I heard. Another thing recently that I really like is if you have the mindset of that you're there to give and not take, it really changes. It changes the dynamic. So if you're there, like, I want everyone to like me. Now, you put a lot of pressure on it, and everyone might not like you, and that really shouldn't matter for you if We're. We're practicing emotional sobriety. We should get up, give what we have to give, and then that's. That's kind of the end of it. Again, I'm not. Not. I'm not saying I've mastered that. The nerves. The nerves are still coming. I'm still. Still dealing with it.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: You know, this isn't a. This isn't a mastery podcast. It's a practice. Practice podcast. Right.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: We're all about practice.
[00:28:11] Speaker C: It is.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Well, I've got.
[00:28:12] Speaker C: Spirit of your attitude, though, is right, though. See, Is what you're saying.
See, emotional sobriety, if I boil it down to something, it's about maturity, right? It's about developing maturity. And what is maturity? It's learning from our experience.
And see, you're describing that so well, Dan, is that. How are you going to work through that if you don't put yourself in that situation?
And when you put yourself in that situation, you give yourself a chance to start to develop the capacity.
I remember when I started my public speaking, I was nervous. I was really nervous. Now I can get up and do it, but, you know, I've done it thousands of times. Right. By now.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:28:53] Speaker C: But that's exactly what you're describing. And I hope people can hear this. It's not about.
Emotional sobriety is not about being and having it all together. It's about getting it together. It's not having it.
Right. And that's what you. Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: And it's. I mean, it's a. It's a daily practice. Like you were saying, there's no finish line.
Because as soon as you master one thing, well, hey, you're ready for the next thing. So let's. Let's move you on.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: And it'll be presented to you. Trust me, you'll become aware of it pretty damn quick, man.
You got it. The next.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: Immediately, the next lesson is like, oh, you're ready here. Here you go.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: I've got one more passage selected, if you want to do one more.
[00:29:43] Speaker C: I love your writing.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: So, you know, I kind of went with the breakdown and then, you know, putting language to it, sort of the self examination.
But then there's the part where we. We have to go back into the world. And so what I realized when I left Divided sky is that emotional sobriety is not just for addicts and alcoholics.
[00:30:06] Speaker C: And it.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: And it may have nothing to do with sobriety in the end. I think it's for every human. And so that's what this passage is about the thing most people say when they find out I went to rehab is, I'm so sorry. It got to that point. They say it gently, with wide eyes, like they're confessing something on my behalf. They mean well, and I get it. It's awkward. I don't correct them. They're still in it, still sleepwalking through their own performance.
When you come out of rehab, your eyes are wide open. You've spent 30 days looking inward, stripping things down to the studs. But the world you're walking back into hasn't changed. Everyone's still performing, whether they're addicts or not.
And it's dangerous to wake the sleeping before they're ready. So I just nod, say thanks, and silently remind myself that I'm the luckiest motherfucker on the planet.
Yes, my life was on fire. Yes, I was losing everything that mattered. Yes, I was out of options. But also, I got a second shot. I got 30 days to tell the truth. I got to stop pretending.
[00:31:13] Speaker C: Awesome, man. That's awesome.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: It's what it is.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Wild.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Thank you. It's wild when you. When you come out, you know, with a certain sense of clarity and a certain, you know, understanding about yourself and.
And your environment, and then you're back in and talking to people.
You see that everyone's dealing with the things that you just dealt with. Everyone's dealing with the things that you just looked at.
[00:31:37] Speaker C: And so you captured it so well, Dan. And the stuff you read to us today is just.
It's so powerful, man. I just, you know, encourage you. If you're listening, please get a Hulk dance book. It's a great read.
I remember I told you, one of the first people that read it, when we had some of your first copies, right? The promo copies. And I handed it to one of my clients that had just done an intensive with me, right? She was flying back to St. Louis, and she read it. And as soon as she got off the plane, she sent me this big, long email and said, I started reading this. I cried all the way home, all the way on the flight. I mean, it touched me so deep, and I related to everything. So if, you know, you're on this journey and you're on this path, please get a hold of Dan's book. Sincerely delusional.
It's just packed full of not only great insights, but a lot. You have a great way of mixing you her end with some of this stuff that, like, when you're talking about that Trey was a soundtrack for your life, I loved it. I have soundtracks for my life. I mean, we all do. Yeah, we all do. It was cool. It's just. You did. You've done a great job, man. I wish you all the best sense.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Right back. Right by Gotcha. And, you know, just what comes up for me is you talking about what you went through, Dan, is, you know, the delusion, the. The types of delusion all of us go through.
It doesn't need to be the thing that defines our entire life. It could be a chapter of our life. And, you know, life is an adventure. And it's cheesy, but like, I feel like the, the further along I get, the more I kind of see it as like this is an adventure with various quests and crises and triumphs. And, you know, and I think like, if you're doing the, the work, then, you know, you don't need to live in that place. You know, you can move through it and out of it, you know, and thank.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Thank God, right? I. I mean, thank God we get chapters. And it's not just.
Not just one thing this whole time, because I mean, I could have been stuck in that delusion until the bitter end or another. Another way. And it was actually, it was actually, I think it was Trey who I heard say this.
He was thankful for that breakdown because he could have just gone on with a low level habit forever and experiencing life at, you know, 60% instead of 100%.
So I. And I think, like, some of the best response I've seen to this book so far have been from people who are not struggling with addiction or don't consider themselves addicts or maybe they don't even drink at all. And those are the people that have come up to me more often and said they see themselves in the pages.
And so I think that surprised me. You know, I was hoping this book would help people that were in a similar position to me. But I think it can be like, really powerful for people that have friends and family that are going through this to give them some understanding of the mechanism and the, you know, that's behind it all. Because it can seem like, wow, this person's just really selfish and why are they doing this? And why don't they just stop?
And there's so much more to it than that that I think, you know, if we can get that message out to more people that are outside of the recovery community, then, then that is.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: I'm with you.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: That's fantastic.
[00:35:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I, you know, one of. One of my hopes is before, before my time is over. Here on this planet. I'm hoping to write a book for the general public called Life on Life's Terms.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Oh, man, get going on that. I can't wait to read it.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: How, you know, help people just embrace these principles because they are powerful principles of life. They really of living.
Living and learning to live and love differently man, in such. In a way that creates freedom. And, you know, that's what we're. That's what emotional sobriety is. It's the experience of freedom. Well, listen, thank you for joining us today, Dan. You know, once again, I love you, Matt. Sam.
